Show Notes:

It seems everyone is talking about Facebook marketing these days. But what really is everyone so excited about and how should you go about developing a Facebook marketing plan?

Who better to discuss this topic than award winning B2B marketing expert & Facebook marketing expert Paul Dunay.

He’s author of the recently published Facebook Marketing Guide for Dummies.  In fact, he’s published four books now. If Paul’s views on the future of marketing in Facebook don’t get you fired up, I don’t know what will.

We discuss:

– Why Paul thinks Facebook will become the preferred platform to acquire new customers, interact with existing customers, and sell products and services

– The #1 secret to appearing in your fans’ news feed (‘News Feed Optimisation’ (NFO) may be the new SEO)

– What is Facebook commerce

– The fascinating Google v Facebook war

– Some great examples of companies doing smart Facebook marketing

– And much more

You should connect with Paul on Twitter, LinkedIn and of course Facebook.


If you prefer to read….

Philip:   There’s a great opening sentence in your new book and I thought I’d read directly from that and we can discuss that point.  I think it’s a cracking statement.  You say in your dedication paragraph that you believe that  Facebook will become the preferred platform for marketers to acquire new customers interacting with existing customers and sell products and services.  I think it’s a pretty cool statement, I wonder if you could explain that.

Paul:    Yeah actually I think it’s a very powerful platform.  The way I like to describe it to my mom is if I was to give you a billboard for free in let’s say New York, in Times Square or in the heart of Sydney, would you take it.  My mom would obviously say yes.  So the 600 million plus people, a 12th of the world, in less than seven years are all connected on Facebook.  So the marketing opportunities there really abound and at this point we are just at the beginning of whatever this is.  What I think I see are maybe three major opportunities for businesses today to start to use Facebook.

The first is around developing new products.  I think you saw Honda had launched a car and they put it out on Facebook for people to comment and they just got torn apart by the Facebook community.  Do you think that they are going to develop products differently going in the future?  They absolutely will and there are already people who are starting to harness the wisdom of the crowd as you will for development of products.

When it comes to marketing products there’s tons of opportunities now when it comes to advertising your products, having a page for your products or service.  I’m using product but I actually mean product or service or appearing in people’s news feed, I actually think the trick today, if you were to ask me today versus say a year ago Philip, it’s a completely different game in the sense of people are trying to gain that centre column, the news feed when you first log in so you can see your brands there and we can dive into that a little bit more if you want but many brands.  Even state and local governments are starting to do things.

I saw the other day, there was – State of Arizona, a major state in the U.S. put out a What Do You Like About Arizona – all of a sudden 200/300 people are piling in – oh I love spiders and I love cactuses and I love the outdoors and the great bla, bla, bla that happens in Arizona.  What happens from that is that now the next time that the State of Arizona has a question or a posting on their page, those people that answered the question or liked the question which was a total of 600 people will now see that content more.

That’s a really illuminating kind of a content analogy that you want to be doing in your business, is to try to create content that people are going to interact with because why?  It will start showing up more and you can start to market and remarket to them.  And the step that I just put into the next version of the book which is the rewrite is point to the 0.02% of people actually go back to the page that they like.  So they never really end up back on your page.

The big fallacy is oh I got to create this page and make the Facebook page for my company really shine, doesn’t matter, don’t put that much effort into it.  Obviously make it nice, don’t make it sloppy and ugly but the juice is to get them to interact with you when it comes to marketing directly to them.  Then I think the biggest opportunity that you’re just going to start to see and is starting to crop up now is selling.  I have a lot of clients right now how they can sell directly on Facebook.

You have Delta Airlines here in the States, we got Brooks Brothers, Victoria Secret, Godiva Chocolate, retailers you would imagine, J.C. Penny, who else, 1-800 Flowers, these might be little bit more of an American examples.  I’m sorry I don’t have native examples for you but there are tons of folks starting to get their commerce, their social commerce if you will, S commerce.  I’ve even heard it called F commerce going on the site.

I’m working with a couple of clients that sell music that want to put their music, their entire music library up there and names that you would really recognize, big brands and big brand names.  It’s very exciting to see that.  I think what we saw when we wrote that has even gotten larger than we thought it would.  How you develop and how you sell and how you market your products is going to change for marketers specially now with Facebook getting so much momentum.

Philip:  Great, what an introduction.  So when do the lights really come on on the opportunities within Facebook and tell us a little bit about your background?

Paul:    Well my background has been typically in B2B marketing and B2B marketing of technology and my co-author in the book is really my B to C evil twin, Rich Crougar.  He’s not evil, I just call him my evil twin.  So he understands the consumer side of it more.  So the two of us make a nice pair in not just in writing but he’s a little bit more technical and I’m a little bit more big picture and obviously as you know the Dummies series is a very technical book.  Do this step first, this step second, so it’s very informative.  He does that very well and I do the big picture stuff very well so it’s a nice match.

The funny story behind this is the two of us went to college together and that was a little while ago, let’s just leave it at that, before Facebook and we reconnected through Facebook.  As I first mentioned, the first note he sent me is, “Hey, I’m living in New York and I’m doing some interactive marketing,” and I wrote him back, “Hey I live in New York and I’m doing some interactive marketing, let’s get together.”  Then this opportunity arose through my blog while he actually contacted me and said, “Hey do you have any ideas for a book – a dummies book?” and I said, “Yeah, Facebook Marketing for Dummies.”  They said, “Well we already have a Facebook for Dummies.”  I said, “Yeah but you don’t have Facebook Marketing for Dummies.”

That was around 2008, just around the corner from when they had launched in November 2007 the ability for companies to have a Facebook page.  I thought that that was going to be a big thing.  Well who knew at that time and certainly Willey didn’t believe me, don’t think that they immediately thought that that was the greatest thing they’ve ever heard.  It took me about nine months to convince them that that was a wonderful thing.  I finally got the contract in December.  That was in March, I sent the proposal in in March and I got the okay to go in December that same year.  Be careful what you wish for is the under statement there right Philip?

Philip:  Yeah that’s great.  I’ve just been looking through your Facebook Marketing for Dummies and it’s a great read, like I said, straight to the point and give us a really good step by step procedures to follow to get your presence up and running.  We’ll touch on bit of that in the session today.  I want to get back to that statement that we opened with around Facebook becoming the preferred platform.  So where do you see search engines like Google and companies’ own websites fitting into their strategies in the future?

Paul:    Okay, so there’s two pieces to that and I’m going to separate it into two if it’s okay.  One is the future of Google and one is the future of the website.  I’ll take the second part first which is really easy which is the website.  I wrote a post about a year and a half ago that said with all this stuff of Facebook, who needs the website?  And I got to tell you, I got a tremendous response of people who really took offense to the statement.  I actually believe and I’ve seen small accounting firms and local shops, small shops, retailers, small restaurants that have opened just a Facebook presence and not a web presence.  So that’s why I wrote that article was to sort of enlighten people that hey, I think I’m seeing something that’s a small minor trend which could turn out to be a bigger trend.

Now if you watch TV you may see people say go to, something like that and again, you see people tagging their print and their TV ads with just their Facebook presence.  It’s a very interesting trend, I don’t really know what to make of it except for the fact that they obviously want to drive people there and hopefully they’ll have a very good experience when they get there.

When it comes to the future of Google, that’s another interesting statement.  I think search is losing some of its relevance because of all this social data.  So if you roll the clock back, research used to be really hard.  Think back to when let’s say, I was student, 20 years ago.  We used to have to go to the library and use the Dewey decimal system and all of these kinds of crazy things and photocopying books and synthesizing material.  Google made that obsolete.  You could just go, type something in and all of a sudden get information so it flipped the research paradigm on its head.

Now I think with all of this search data, I’m sorry with all of this social data, it’s turning the paradigm on its head for search engines.  Google does not include all of the Facebook feed, all of the Twitter feeds, all of the blogs and forums and social networks.  All that publicly available stuff and all the stuff that they do, it actually messes up their search results.

So you see a lot of analytics firms and truth be told one of which I’m doing some work for called Network Insights do this kind of analysis of just socials and we can help optimize marketers and advertisers by giving them good social data on people who like your brand also do ‘x’.  That can actually be very informative to them.

It’s something you’re not going to get out of Google.  It worries me a little bit for their future.  Obviously they’ve got tons of intelligent people there that are probably trying to crack the code on this right now and I would also think that they would want some sort of social analytics, Google Analytics for social media or something like that sometime in the very near future.  I don’t have any information on my sleeve but I would just imagine that that would be something that they would be working on so that they can also produce that kind of result.

Philip:  Yeah, GA for social would be quite interesting.  In fact we just published an our newsletter talking about Google’s latest release of – they rolled out this social search which was in beta from October from last year and is now live so Google results will pull in information from your friends profiles but not Facebook.  Google and Facebook are still at war.

Paul:    They’re going to put down their sword with Facebook and really just take it in.  If not, Facebook is going to become its own version of Google.  Just think of the data that they have that you can get from their pipe right now.  You can get geo location datas so that they could say, Philip just updated his status in Sydney and Paul just did it in New York but they could also say Philip did it viz. a viz. mobile and Paul did it viz. a viz browser.  So we are a web based client.

So you can start to get some really interesting data on, hey Paul is doing a lot in Starbucks in Nashville, Tennessee and there’s a lot of mobile activity going on right there.  That’s something that can’t be fathomed by Google at this point or at least the current version of it.  I’m sure they’ve got some things brewing underneath their covers.

Philip:  Yeah, the social website thing I think is fascinating, why wouldn’t you rather ask because there’s an easier way to ask on social network what the best hairdresser was in Perth or Sydney or New York or whatever.  Why would you do that rather than go to Google?  Obviously Google are feeling that.  I wanted to get back to your point around the website, the future of the website being potentially inside Facebook.

The thing that jumps out at me, yes that makes a lot of sense in terms of the interaction with all your prospects and customers, but what about the ownership of the content.  Building on Facebook’s platform, if you have letters to Facebook, that’s Facebooks and you can really get them down and all sorts of stuff.  I mean the ownership of content I think would scare a lot of businesses.

Paul:    Yeah, and again I hate to sound like a know it all but I wrote about this.  I actually read the terms of service like a year and a half before this whole thing blew up and I wrote a blog post that said by the way, Facebook owns all your stuff so just get used to it.  I don’t really see it as such a problem.  I mean people talk about it in ways that well, what if they sell my photos or they take my personal photos and they’re going to resell them.  I don’t see that ever happening.  If they are that hard up for money, that’s going to be a really ugly day for Facebook and most people would probably just delete their stuff and go on and live their lives.

But for me, a firm that’s giving you free access to their system, free uploads and storage of video, they’re the second largest video site, they’re the largest photo sharing site.  It’s something like 750,000 photos were uploaded on New Year’s day on Facebook and all of that for free on top of your own free blogging platform, your own free Twitter, sms kind of platform, now email.  I mean that just doesn’t make any sense.

So I understand the businesses might be a little scared of it.  You got to get used to letting go of your content, you never know what good things could happen, I think everyone’s looking at the downside of it but thank you for asking me that question.  That’s one that typically comes up quite a bit.

Philip:  Yeah I’m sure it comes up all the time.  I mean I’m not fussed from a personal perspective but if I think about the company, if that was the centre of their online universe, that makes me a little worried or would make me a little worried.

Paul:    The other big question that I get, that you haven’t, that I may ask for you if you don’t mind, which is so where’s the next Facebook or when is the next Facebook coming around?  What I like to say there is it’s grown to such a level and I liken it to – let’s just take the history of search.  If you remember search engines like Lycos and Alta Vista, even AOL to a certain extent, there were plenty of search engines that went before them.  But then all of a sudden Google came out of the woodwork and it closed the door on them.  Remember they had just this clean UI and everybody loved it, the buzz about what great results you would get out of Google.  I’m telling you I think the same thing is happening here in Facebook.

You remember Friendster and My Space and all of those kinds of places that have gone by the wayside and they built up such a massive amount of traffic and following at this point that they are going to be able to monetize it in ways similar to what Google did with Adwords.  So they have three great business models staring them in the face, one of which any of us who is listening to this would die for to have.  One of them the ad platform which is going to be similar to Google Adwords, I currently do a lot of work for customers on that, because you’re able to target in ways that you’ve never targeted before.

If you want males that are married living in Connecticut who like to sail, eat sushi and listen to Dave Mathews, then I would appear.  I would be one of the people that you would be putting your ad on.  So that is a fantastic platform and that’s going to be very profitable for them.  The applications platform, you’ve seen a model similar to the Apple App store which is by the way a pretty darn good business too.  Facebook currently takes a percentage of revenues the same way that Apple does and it’s the exact same model.

So again another really, really good model and then the model that I mentioned before which is the commerce model, F commerce, S commerce, whatever you want to call it.  They are flirting with a model similar to ebay that allows people to open up their own store front, think Yahoo shopping or something like that.  Again another fantastic business model.  So I’d kill for any one of them.  They happen to have all three of them under their umbrella there.  I think it’s going to be hard to kill them off any time soon.

Philip:  And I think the big difference between search engines and social network is that for me to move away from Google to another search engine is just a click of a button but moving away from Facebook to another social network – they’ve go so many hooks in me that it’s very difficult to move.

Paul:    It’s a fantastic point.  The switching cost, because they’ve got all my data and all my friends and all my photos and all the bla, bla, bla, all my blog posts I’ve ever written.  Then that’s a really big problem, how are you going to move out of there?

Philip:  I think any threat to Facebook’s dominance is how to handle privacy, one or two large privacy slip ups, that could be their undoing.  Other than that I think it’s pretty hard for somebody to compete with them.

Paul:    You’re right.  Zuckerburg said in his address to the Web 2.0 community in November, he said, “Listen, I don’t know the answers.  I don’t have any of the answers.”  He says, “I’m pushing the envelope because that’s the way this thing runs and if I slip up I’m going to say I’m sorry and pull it back, but there is no precedent for this and I don’t have any guide for where I’m going.  I’m just following the way people want to do things.”  So even he admitted, he just doesn’t know.

Philip:  Let’s get into a little case study or example or something, maybe bring it to life for some of the listeners who aren’t that familiar with the whole how marketing within Facebook works.  Can we use an example of a small business, maybe 100 staff or 200 staff, maybe in the B2B space and explain briefly how they’d go about it and what the opportunities would be for them.

Paul:    Right, so a company I did business with for them on Facebook was Bizlocal.  It’s a small B2B firm that’s businesses to help them become more digital.  They were looking to target individuals online, they were looking to create their own page, advertise their page and create content.  So we were able to increase their fan page dramatically, like 17% in one week.  It was incredible by using some very basic tactics, some ads, some like button, giving some free information like a white paper.  In their case it was an ebook and to get them to really start to engage with the page.  People were sharing it and naturally it grew and grew and grew.

What they were targeting were marketers and it was amazing to be able to see how many marketers were on Facebook and say that they are marketers and then to be able to target these small firms within there.  We were looking at a very special geo location within a 30 mile radius, within a 60 mile radius, etcetera and get them actual leads.  So they swear by Facebook at this point for their marketing activity.

Another one was company called Prediculous.  This was little more of a prediction engine so a very digitally based business in general and we were able to do some fabulous ads for them during like the Superbowl and during the Oscars to get them advertisements and get people to sign on and predict obviously part of the name, Prediculous, to predict the outcome and by opening up an account, that accrues to them as an advertising platform so that they are able to add, to put ads on those pages and it just expanded their business model tremendously.  So we were adding people at 99¢ all the way down to, I forget, our lowest was like 13¢, something like that.  It was a good ad model that yielded revenue for them on the back end.  There was an arbitrage for them and they played it beautifully.  Another great company using it, small company using it.

I would think if you’re any sort of local business like Bizlocal, that is a good – Facebook is a great place to play and to get your message out to people who are engaged and enjoying it.  I would say – a few things that I learned is that if the company itself isn’t very social, people kind of sense that.  So just doing it for the sake of doing it is probably the wrong reason.  If your company is very social and you’ve got a CEO that is social or a marketing person that’s social, leverage them to do something like this because then they understand the medium.  Then they can update.

I think a lot of people spend more time and energy on planning the wedding than planning the marriage.  I equate that to planning the wedding is getting the Facebook page up and running and then they forget about it.  They have no plan for content afterward, that’s the planning the marriage.  I tend to talk to people a lot about well, what’s your content plan and if they don’t know or they roll their eyes, then potentially a problem when it comes to something like Facebook.

Philip:  Yeah, I like that.  That’s a great saying, focusing on planning the marriage.  I think I can see a lot of businesses operating tactically, get something up and running whether it’s Twitter or Facebook or whatever and then not having thought through all the implications and the work that’s involved

Paul:    Yep, you got it.

Philip:  Okay, what about using Facebook for B2B type companies where the product or service is potentially not that exciting.  That’s the one area that I have a hard time getting my head around is that why someone is going to connect and interact with an accounting firm for example?

Paul:    Okay.  If I can pick on accounting firms, I can absolutely help.  The…

Philip:  Sorry to all the accounting firms out there

Paul:    Yeah.  A good example, accounting firm, consulting firm, law firm, let me open the aperture a little bit so we don’t make anybody unhappy.  All of them have been using it for recruiting.  Look at Ernst & Young, very good example there, using it for showing the culture of the company, events that are going on within the company, getting people to interact with the company who might become a potential hire, a new hire.

The ran a game, I think it was Deloittes who ran a game where it was predict the outcome of this particular situation or act like a CEO or what would you do as a CEO in this situation.  They used it very cleverly for a fairly mundane business, it’s a fairly straightforward business.  I think they used it very well to play to their assets which is people.  So then if you get into some more obscure firms like ball bearings manufacturer or a sadder paste manufacturer, few good examples.  There’s one that says soldering paste manufacturer that just talks about all different ways to use sodder.  They have seven different blogs for seven different people, they aggregate it all on Facebook.  It’s like their Swiss Army knife because it pulls in all of those different blogs from each of those people and pushes out content on a regular basis.

For those that are in construction or those that are in I don’t know what you use ball bearings in – car manufacturing – there’s a great opportunity to connect with people who are of like minds.  Don’t forget it’s a community first and a social platform second.  If you’ve seen the movie, the social network, he was talking a lot about building a community of like minded people and what’s happening is you’re splintering the community and not in a bad way, fragmenting would be a bad way but splintering it into smaller sub groups and allowing them to interact with each other.

Philip:  Those are some great examples and I’m sure this next question you’ve heard a million times and that is for business owners listening to this show, it all sounds, it sort of make sense, increasing the communication and then sales lead, what’s the ROI going to be and how am I going to measure that?  Who cares if I have a million fans on my Facebook page, how am I going to measure the ROI and what sort of ROI can I expect?

Paul:    Yeah, the ROI question comes up quite a lot.  I actually just put together an I’m putting the finishing touches on it, I’m going to be speaking at a few different events coming up soon and it’s twelve ways, the dozen ways to monetize social media.  I found twelve different ways that you can monetize a platform like Facebook.

Depends on what your business goal is, I would say the first place that I found that I stepped on that I thought was a really fertile area to create ROI was around supporting existing customers.  Every business out there has customers.  I think it was the president of Procter & Gamble who said the business of businesses is to create customers and so if you’ve got customers, you’ve got customers you need to support.  If the conversation is going on in Facebook then you have a very good reason to be there to support them, whether it’s a product, ball bearings, bananas, sodder paste, accounting, you’ve got customers out there that need support so why not be there for them.  So setting up a page and allowing your customers to come in and interact with other customers, have them solve their problem or for you to actually solve their problem right there is a very powerful way of connecting back with the customer.

I also liked it from a marketer perspective because it’s marketers talking to customers.  Fancy that.  That’s kind of a fancy thing, right?  That’s a great place.  I also think it’s got a great ROI when it comes to looking at the targeting of your advertising and the epicacy of your advertising.  Is it working?  Is it hitting the right target?  There are some really great data that you can pull out of Facebook right now for free by using their ad targeting platform and looking at who is interacting with your messages.  They give us the ability now to get impression counts on every bit of content we post to our page.  So you can begin to look at the kind of people who are interacting with my content are really 18 to 20 year olds that live in Sydney.  Wow, I didn’t really consider that there was a good portion of my brand that is appealing to a new area and I should consider starting to cultivate that particular area.

Philip:  I see no reason why Facebook Analytics is not going to be as powerful as Google Analytics is.

Paul:    I kind of hinted at that a little bit near the top of the call when we were talking about Google and I actually have had conversations directly with Facebook about that topic.  Are you going to – I’ve said to them directly – are you going to launch some sort of data analytics thing here?  And the answer was don’t put it past us, we’re certainly looking at everything right now and that is one area that they are looking at and their looking either at firms or at building something natively.  I would think that they would most likely take in some sort of firm to do it for them, buy the talent and buy the interaction and there are certainly some platforms out there that are making really good money, Buddy Media, Involver, some of these other platforms that are working on top of the Facebook platform and Page Leavers, another one, good friends over there, would kill me if I didn’t mention them.  Really, really great data that you can get out of there and apply in different ways.

Philip:  Yeah, I’m sure that’s really high up on the list of priorities.  But I guess today there’s a huge amount of information you can really get within Facebook but linking it through to Google Analytics may be call tracking specific numbers around Facebook.  There’s a lot you can actually measure up right now anyway.

Paul:    Well, let’s just close our eyes out and look a year out.  If firms start doing commerce as I’m saying in which there are firms doing it, they’re going to have the full close loop right there.  I had a conversation with the folks over at M&Ms.  They have a site up on Facebook as well that they can do commerce.  So they’ll be able to see who, what, where do they come from?  How much did they buy?  It’s like a mini focus group or a mini laboratory if you will for how you would do some of your marketing efforts in the future.  You could take that and extrapolate it out.  I think there are some really great metrics that we’re going to be able to use in the next couple of years that is going to make a marketing and advertising much more efficient than it’s ever been.  And it’s not just a Facebook statement, it’s a little bit more like a social media statement.

Philip:  I have another very common question, I’m sure this is going to be in the top three questions that you come across all the time and it’s the fear of the business owners now dealing with consumers who have a voice.  Suddenly they have to be their own PR agency as well, potential damages to the brand and that sort of thing.  I wonder if you could give a few comments on that?

Paul:    Oh my God, yeah, absolutely.  Whenever you open up the doors like this, I like to say it’s a little bit like in the spring time when you open up a garden hose or a spigot to a garden hose and the water comes out a little dirty and then it starts to run clean, there is always some noise in that channel.  I’ve not met a single business owner that has opened up – that hasn’t gotten some sort of not so flattering feedback at the beginning.

It’s how you handle it.  I got to tell you, I was a big advocate opening up and being transparent at the beginning and I remember the day and I remember exactly where and when.  It was 10pm and I was in a cab in New York city when I got the email that said, look at this comment, it’s pretty ugly and what do we do, from my interactive team.  My knee jerk reaction was delete the damn thing as fast as possible.  First thing I thought of doing.

Then I said wait a minute, (a) that’s not what you say to do and, (b) face it head on.  We invited them to a conversation – to have a conversation about their issue and we successfully mitigated the issue and it turned out to be almost like a great case study.  I mean it’s not a fantastic case study but at least we satisfy the customer and I think satisfying a customer – there’s a positive aura in that one too.  If we saved – like last year when I was doing work for a buyer, if we saved 50 customers of theirs that were let’s say in an adversarial kind of position, not happy about the brand, not happy about their service support, their product, whatever and we took them and we kept them as opposed to losing them, the cost of going and replacing those customers is let’s say $10,000 in a B2B highly considered purchase kind of environment, that’s $500,000.

Were we spending $500,000 on social media, no way.  Now that’s an ROI that even a caveman can calculate.   It’s so easy to do, it’s not even high math, it’s just virtually looking at how much you’re spending versus how much this thing has cost.

Philip:  Yeah, my message to business owners on that is these conversations are happening with or without you.  You might as well get involved and influence that conversation.

Paul:    Yeah, of course, absolutely.

Philip:  Even though it can be a little bit scary sometimes when you have your first negative interaction but as you say, you can turn that person around, turn them into an advocate.

Paul:    And you have to.

Philp:   Let’s talk a little bit about some advanced tips or some new functionalities that are coming out.  You touched on a few today.  How do you see additional functionalities rolling out in the next 12 months?

Paul:    I would think that if you are a business that has products to sell then you should be looking at commerce capability for your page, assuming you have a page.  If you don’t have a page, read the book, get the page up, get it going, advertise the page, build the user base of that page as quickly as you can because then you can monetize it.

I think the advertising model is changing dramatically, you’re starting to get even better combinations and targeting.  You can target customers of your competitors, I mean it unbelievable things that you can now do through that site.

The commerce angle, there’s a few real key leaders there, Moon Toast is one of them, Pavement is a network of painted sites almost like a paint pal that is emerging.  They have about couple of thousand customers and you could buy from any of those sites by searching in their search bar.  It acts like a universal shopping cart, I think that’s kind of exciting as well.

There are some industrial strengths, ones that would integrate with SAP and with Oracle so keep those in mind as well.  They’re starting to pop up so I think commerce at that angle.  But I also think you might want to be considering how you can create content to get the most amount of likes or the most amount of interaction because of the Facebook algorithm.  They have an algorithm called edge rank.  So if Google has page rank, they have edge rank.  What you want to do is be creating that content like I was mentioning before, to try to get the most out of the platform and the most interaction.

People don’t really come back to that site because they’re just not going back to pages that they’ve previously liked.  The more you can create blogs, ebooks, videos – videos are very good, podcasts, pictures – anything with pictures, obviously very good which spurs people to like it or comment on it.  That’s going to be really key for you because the three things that – their edge rank algorithm really ranks hard is affinity so how the user has been interacting with your content, age of the content obviously and then weight.  Do they comment or do they just like it?  There’s a big difference between those two things and if you can start to use that to your advantage, you’re going to see a much greater result specially in what I’m calling newsfeed optimization where you get the maximum amount of content on the newsfeed.

Philip:  So do you think NFO is going to be the new SEO?

Paul:    I definitely do.

Philip:  Maybe I need to register some domains quickly.

Paul:    Yeah, that’s true.  Excellent.

Philip:  That’s fantastic Paul.  Do you have any closing comments?  We’ve run out of time, you’ve given some great information, any closing comments on the big opportunity that’s out there for business owners?

Paul:    I just think don’t fear it, jump in with both feet, try to get good help, read whatever you can about it, this is still the beginning stage so you haven’t missed the boat, that’s the good news but definitely jump in some time soon because this is really an area that’s going to continue to explode and you might as well be there.

Philip:  Great, thanks Paul.  Where can people find you?

Paul:    On my blog, Paul

Philip:  And Twitter?

Paul:    Twitter same, I’m Paul Dunay, Paul Dunay all over the place.

Philip:  Beautiful.  Well thanks again so much for your time Paul.

Paul:    Alright, thank you very much Philip, take care.

By Philip Shaw

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